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Fantastic show! You kinda popped my happy little WAR-bubble, because I had no idea this was going on.
Hey guys, as you know I've already sent you a few emails in regards to this, but I figure I may as well post here to. Thecm GCD bug has, as of right now, compeletely ruined ORvR for me. I think the worst part however, for me at least, is the number players who are completely okay with these cheaters existing. Hell, some people outright support them, even on the godwaffle official forums!!! I amazes me that people can be so downright selfish. They just don't seem to understand that when you cheat to win, you're going to run out of people to fight eventually. You are KILLING this game for a countless number of people. At the moment, I'm pissed. (Well.. I am a Black Guard, so technically I'm always pissed... but that's irrelevent)
The point is, cheaters ruin games. If Mythic doesn't get their waffle together by the end of this month, I'll be long gone and won't be looking back.
Brutal. If stuff like this kills the game it will be a tragedy.
Aside from problems with Mythic policy and management of the forums and policing the cheaters, what strikes me is: how can the software even allow some of these exploits in the first place? The developers have to assume that the client can be spoofed or hacked like this - was it simply a performance issue to have the server simply trust the client when it says "my location is now X" or "I am now alive"? Many of the cheats supported by this thing seem like variations on the above.
I'm not a game developer but I am a developer, and I work with client/server and multi-tier apps and this seems like evidence of serious design problems on the software architecture level. Maybe I'm wrong.
I love the art and the design and the quests and the themes and the RVR and all the "design" aspects of the game but I'm getting the impression that the actual software is hella bugged - and that's deadly.
Cheating like this is allways been in games and will allways be, eather you like it or not. However, how fast they crack down on this cheats are a another thing. Warhammer as a MMO with steady income every month should have the funds to stop this cheats early and not let them go on forever like in other games. But im afraid that due to EA policy (I was a sad sad puppy when they bought mythic, but won't go into that destruction of companies any futher) they will allow them to cheat since they keep paying subscription, I bet a million bucks that if there was a cheat that allowed people to play (on mythic servers) without paying they would strike down on this right away.
Good show as allways and I felt this harsh podcast was necisary and hope mythic listen to this podcast since you guys discuss alot of good subjects conserning the game.
good episode guys. pretty much sums up the problems.
and like kaarenyth said, as long as the cheaters pay their monthly dues, its going to be us legit players who have to quit to get the point across. sucks, but thats they way they seem to be conducting business.
i'll miss WARP if you guys move on, i enjoy listening to it.
[...] still busy with real life, my subscription is still inactive, but this, needs to be adressed. Seriously Mythic, do something about it. Great podcast by the [...]
I'm speechless. I gave this a shout-out at Blame the Healer, I hope you don't mind.
Not at all! Thanks for the shout out! I think the more we get this issue noticed, the better chance we have of getting it fixed as well.
For crying out loud. Mythic gives you a direct email to report cheats that is stickied on the forums. Complaining that they dont let you advertise this stuff on the forums is pretty dumb.
[...] Link here: http://deadworkers.com/network/?p=1307 [...]
Excellent show! Linked to this podcast from the Casual WAR (http://casualwar.com) - spread the word, fight the good fight!
I have posted this very important topic on my site and thank you guys for raising the concern. Let's hope the WAR community can raise this issue enough so Mythic know how important it is to us all.
Khannage
And yet, when we report them, nothing happens.
Does anyone know if this program allow some one to kill you even if you are not in the RvR lake. I died the other day and no one was around. I was in a cave and had almost all my health. I was killed by another player.
@Tony: Elf lands T4 Cave? (Sorry I can't recall the zone name or location of the cave right now but I can look it up later if necessary.) Anyway - There is a cave in the area that runs under the RvR lake and flags you for RvR (surprised me to get flagged, but when i checked my map I realized what was going on). It may be possible that even outside of the exploits discussed on the most recent show that possibly effects or something may have transited through the floor of the RvR lake, i seem to remember taking damage from a player in the situation i outlined above months back, i'm hoping it was a bug at that point but you never know I guess.
your concern/worry is probably the worst part of the entire issue.... when bugs happen now people may not be sure if its a bug, or if its because of a hack -- either way probably should be /appealed.
[...] the low down on this and what you need to watch out for, I urge you to go listen to the excellent WARP podcast. I’ve just seen a video of this cheat on youtube too, woah… Not hard to spot it would [...]
I wish this was actual reason everyone is leaving the game , but it isn't.
It's , unfortunately , not 3rd party program killing the game , its the games developers with 3* talent 5* attitude (as PB says) .
Bot is nothing compared to things such as unplayable lag , useless game engine that makes you run super mario graphics because anything else will get you 1 FPS.
A dead game that had potential. I sure hope people do learn from this and don't give Mythic 2nd chance on their next "big hit" MMO .
I will cancel. So will others. Aoc had aocbuddy, look what happened to that. Integrity is, and only, what keeps these games alive and the ability to charge a monthly fee.
I just want to thank you guys for letting me know about this program... I am amazed what Mythic response is to this problem on the forums. Ignore/do not talk of it, like it's going away. Anyone can either google or youtube it and they can find it right there with a link.
You would think they would make a statement like "We are aware of certain programs are allowing users to cheat, we are looking into it." but that would be wishful thinking I guess.
Ah well. Broken/unfun end game content, bugs or unbalances that are NOT addressed instead we get more content!, too much lag, and cheats like this pretty much make this game a bust for me.
Thank you for the great podcasts!
Take care.
good episode, I didn't realize seth rogan played war.
[...] discuss it in great detail on our Warhammer podcast, so feel free to take a listen, then pass it along. Let everyone you know that plays or is thinking [...]
First, I would like to say that I enjoy the podcast. My rides to and from work are much more bearable listening to your podcasts.
Second, my account is cancelled. I will probably continue to listen to your show to get my updates as my interest in the game from a hobbyist's perspective is there, but several factors caused me to leave and they are all related to issues presented in this podcast.
I think the real issue here is that this game was not ready for a production release from an internal perspective. The problem inherent with every MMO is that MMOs create persistent digital content in a persistent environment. Once a player is vested in that environment, there is a real sense of ownership in that environment and to be exposed to its fragility and have no ability to strengthen that base is to strip away that ownership. The natural raw emotional response is anger.
It seems to me that the problem here is with EA. They are renowned for rushing games to market that look great, but work like shit. Its a horrible combination in a persistent environment. If the game isn't well structured from the ground up, it will be apparent. Server latency issues, server imbalance, and as has become obvious, logging and exploit control are all issues that are pressed by money. My guess is that EA is pressuring Mythic to release content on schedule instead of delaying said content to fix game breaking issues as that makes for good press, especially in a game with declining membership. How do you fix an exploit issue using server logging if you aren't logging? Anyone in an IT role knows logging slows performance. Maybe Mythic was pressured to fix server instability by cutting some of these "non essential" processes. Now we sit looking at an exploited game that has to be detuned to be fixed. Its not a hard scenario to imagine taking EA's greed into consideration.
In the end, I think it will be the next Age of Conan so I'm cutting my losses now. The issues can be fixed, but it will take money , time, and a bunch of additional marketing and none of those are things EA is interested in doing.
I wish the rest of you good luck. It really could be a great game if efforts were redirected.
[...] issue, eloquently stated by WARP, needs to be addressed and it needs to be done FAST! Crap like this is what makes or breaks a game [...]
[...] apparently, that’s what Mythic wishes you should do. The WARP podcast broke a fairly big story about a well-known hack for the game called “WARBuddy”, which [...]
Your feeder isn't updating properly.
Thanks for sounding the alarm about game breaking issues like this.
As a side note, check out the prophecy in the intro to episode 3...
I agree that Mythic has some major issues going on but EA does have an "A" from the BBB.
BBB Reliability Report BBB Definition:
Report - A summary of activity reflected in a company's BBB file. Includes basic business background, BBB Accreditation information, and BBB complaint activity over the previous three years. Also reports may include any known government actions, advertising issues or other information that results from activity conducted by BBB.
for
Electronic Arts, Inc.BBB Rating A
This is why I quited the game. I played a SM and kept getting killed at BO by a SG, he kept shooting me from the floor. Talked to CSR and they answered 4 days after I cancel my acct just to say that they didnt saw a thing.
Hate to break to you guys but it turns out that War buddy has been around since september of last year. Made a little seach and there are even videos on youtube from sept 08 of war buddy. It makes you wonder if Mythic has known since then or how many times you fell victim to it.
Thanks for all the great comments everyone!
It does suck that people cheat, and it does ruin the game. Just look at Halo 3 online content, and you'll see just how bad things get when cheating isn't addressed.
But if you think that Mythic isn't doing all they can, then you are very naive. It is in their own best interests to fix this issue asap. The problem is that the Warbuddy people can put all of their resources into this one program. Mythic, on the other hand, cannot put all of their resources into counteracting this cheat while at the same time addressing all of the other issues with the game. Even thought Mythic is a part of a giant company, they can only work with what EA budgets them. EA may have nearly unlimited resources, but Mythic does not.
As for the CSRs, I have never had any issues with them. Most of the time they are very polite, ask intelligent questions, and are at least empathetic (even if this is just lip service, it is a nice touch). Also, I know for a fact that they do investigate Warbuddy issues, and do ban people.
Recently, I reported a destro player (I forget the name) for attacking me from under the ground. A CSR didn't contact me, but the player disappeared and has yet to return to the game. Of course, I am very specific with my observations in any CSR communications, and I try to include the time the incident happened. This is evidently very important because every CSR I talk to asks me exactly when the event occured.
Also, I think the CSRs are more apt to be helpful if you are polite to them either in your message or when you chat with them. I know that if I was a CSR and a player was beligerant to me because I wouldn't immediatly ban someone they saw cheating, that I wouldn't take their complaint very seriously. I know that cheating makes people mad (and rightly so), but that's no reason to take it out on the CSR.
I do agree though. This might be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Mythic needs to squash Warbuddy, or many people will find other games to play. But even then, odds are they will have to contend with a clone of the cheat in another game.
ffs just go and cheat on a private server where you can play for free and not have anyone shouting at you. You're just ruining the fun for everyone else.
Linked in forums, lots of discussion about it.
Mythic will do the same thing they did as they did with DAOC's map hacks. At first: nothing at all, unless people are so stupid as to be easy to catch.
They'll wait (too) long, just like with DAOC. By the time they have a system in place to prevent this, the game will be deep in it's autumn.
It is SO frustrating to see them make the same stupid mistakes again that they did in DAOC. You'd think they would have learned a think or two after having run that game for seven years. Alas. They get to do it wrong again in WAR.
i had this episode on que and had not listened to it yet, glad i did today.
just yesterday i got killed by a hacker on praag server and reported the speed hacking, as he was teleporting all over the place, no lag whatsoever, and within minutes was contacted by csrs about it.
i brought it to the official forums on the war herald and called out the guy and he confessed to getting banned.
I had 0 faith in mythic, after the failure of DAoC, going in to WAR, and im losing more tolerance with thier devs not communicating with the community!
mythic needs to get their act together.